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Shouldnt players

Discussion in 'Archive' started by Evilmuky, Nov 18, 2014.

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  1. Evilmuky

    Evilmuky User

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    be allowed to voice their concerns on the forums without being censored like in the best of dictatorships. what exactly is innova afraid of, that players will realize how they run this game and these forums like a nazy state? why have forums at all if only those politically correct threads will be allowed to remain?

    is everyone supposed to kiss *** so you moderating small minded people with delusions of grandure don't have to deal with matters that are too bothersome to acknowledge? matters that show how understaff innova is and what a pitiful service they provice? why not just replace everyone with a copy paste program to continuously spew garbage rules made to take away players rights. im sure that would be much easier and cheaper too.

    thank you.
     
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  2. Relic

    Relic User

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    this is what happens when nerds w/o any social abilities get moderator status on internet forums.

    srsly makes me laugh how they always come into topics and post :stay on topic or your reply's will get deleted when most of the time question of the topic or content is discussed within 3-4 replys and than it just goes offtopic like it should bcz thats how conversations and discussions flow and forum is generating more traffic.
    i remember back in the days when l2 forums were raw as hell ,video discussion would turn into 30 page drama about bots,clan jumpers and etc.
    now its just nice video,bad music,comes in almighty mod stay on topic guis,thread dies and fun is ruined.
    srsly ease off guys with this hardcore moderating nonsense check out russian forums they are much less moderated and people are encouraged to post much more.bcz i repeat more posts=more traffic=forum appears in google search engine more=more people join l2eu=more $$$
     
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  3. RedWind

    RedWind User

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    the best of all is -> they didnt't get any $$ but they playing like some ss officer's :d ye ye, everyone knows it and so ;p
     
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  4. QUinter

    QUinter User

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    maybe moderators are empty inside that's why they punish us .. mortals :d
     
    Known likes this.
  5. procc

    procc User

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    low budget project = low budget "moderators"/"admins". any questions?
     
  6. QUinter

    QUinter User

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    why low budget ? :d
     
  7. ginaki7

    ginaki7 User

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    maybe he mean that they pay them to little so they dont give the 100% of themselves in support the community and fix things that are broken :p the less you pay someone the less he does his job.but as i heard they cant interfere in the ingame files and fix something.only koreans can do it.at least thats what innova says.
     
  8. Evilmuky

    Evilmuky User

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    i do not believe is related to low budget or minimum wage, is all about the character of the people, some of the nicest people in the world work for minimum wage, this assertion is based on the fact that most of the working force works for minimum wage so you're bound to met all sorts, sadly for this game they seem to hire people who like the power trip as moderators.

    i am also refering to forums rules like the following (before some moderator breaks the totalitarian rule book and deletes this tread, i am not discussing a ban or a penalty but the completly illogical and ridiculous rule itself):

    "discussing bans, suspensions, and infractions

    when: content related to disciplinary actions is considered private information between innova and the affected party. this includes, but is not limited to infractions, forum suspensions or bans, in-game suspensions or bans, appeals."

    in what legal contract is one of the parties considered privy to the information, aka an affected party as they draft it, not allowed to speak about the disciplinary actions applied upon them?. disciplinary actions which by the way are applied without any sort of contact or communication from innova to the affected party.

    or

    "discrimination

    when: discrimination of any kind. this includes content that could be construed as discrimination against a particular race, natinality, ethnicity, gender, sexual preferences, language, religion, age, group of players ( e.g. rating, experience, mode preference, etc.)
    what: temporary or permanent ban, depending on severity and previous offenses."

    should we consider people who have been applied infractions with no notice or communication as discrimated against? in what civilized country can you take unillateral actions against someone whitout providing a shred of evidence. well lets throw this person in jail and when we have time we see what he/she has done exactly, just to be on the safe side you know.

    although in my apinnion the problem arises from this:

    "nb: adherence to these rules shall be determined at the sole discretion of innova staff and moderators."

    so based on which moderator you get to talk to and in which mood they are, they have free reign to do whatever they want regardless of the user agreement or any other agreements that you may have accepted to play this game. basically your rights will be thrown out the window on a case to case bases as decided my moderators. i'm pretty sure this is not even legal.
     
  9. Pr0t0n

    Pr0t0n User

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    innova is a private company not a public entity.

    /thread
     
  10. Sweetnight

    Sweetnight User

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    wait... they pay to moderators? i always thought it is not a profitable thingie.
    on topic: moderators are here to moderate. they do their job and more exactly paying attention to what people write on this forum. forum has rules, if someone doesn't follow the rules, moderators are doing their job. and with our community, trust me, from my point of view, it is not really an easy task. why don't you all instead of writing those rage posts, don't use part of your time and actually read those rules and follow them in order to understand how you should act in a forum and what is allowed and now allowed in it.
    i am here for how long? hmm, around 2 years and something and get 1 single infraction at the beginning, because i have to admit that, i didn't read the rules. so why it is so hard for some people to actually use the forum normally?
     
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  11. Evilmuky

    Evilmuky User

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    there is a very considerable difference between moderating and censoring.

    i'm very sure people can read the rules as well as people being able to use the "forum normally", is your definition of normally that people, me included, have a problem with. rules like keep a friendly tone on your posts, do not insult each other, do not use racial derogatory terms, even though most terms are widely accepted and regularly used, even do not engage on political topics, which i have seen on some forums, are "normal" rules, but don't be fooled by the purpose of these so called rules, they are not only there to keep the harmony of forums, most rules are there so moderators don't have to work so much. for example, it can be easily seen how a post about the african bettle mating rituals will not be as controversial as the current economic situation of greece due to the european union interfering with their domestic economy and how it has affected their lives

    maybe it would be necessary you all moderators, since it seems that we are now generalizing and putting everyone in the same ship, as is often done by people who censor to justify their actions, take a minute to see why people write what you call rage posts. maybe then you would be able to see that even though some are indeed rage posts, some are actually people voicing concerns or complaints about different topics. moderating is not blindly applying rules or personal points of view over what people write or say. maybe you should take some time to see what moderating actually means.

    imagine this if you will. you get home from work and your electric power supply has been interrupted. you walk around the apartment checking all the lights and the main switchboard and find everything seems to be operating properly. you open the door to see if it is just your apartment or if your neighbours also don't have power. it is just you. so you call the power company and get an automated message. after 12 hours with no power someone finally talks to you, tells you that they are really busy and they will get to your problem when and if they can, including in their response that further calls will have no effect on speeding the resolution of your problem, whichever it might be. a few days later you get an automated phone call saying that you are using the power installation in your appartment illegaly and this is why the supply has been interrupted. .
    you don't have the option of going over to the power company offices because they have none near where you live. all you can do is go down to the nearest internet cafe or use your phone, ipad, laptop to go into the power company forums and attempt to contact someone. here you are constantly reminded that you cannot speak about service interruption or sanctions that may have been applied to your contract because is a private matter between the affected parties (even though it is your contract, so you are one of the affected parties). all your threads are deleted or locked and all your attempts of contacting anyone who can help you with your problem have been stonewalled.

    after 15 days you still have no power, neither a proper explanation nor evidence of why you have no power and noone has been bothered to contact you. so you have no idea what you have done, because you know that you are not doing anything illegal and you have no way of solving your problem.

    sweetnight reply is a clear example of a completly off topic response. it answers none of the concerns that have been posted in this thread, once again it just reminds players that there are rules, no matter how illegal they are, and that they should follow them, to read what is and isn't allowed to do in the forums, while pointing out how moderating is not an easy task. this response can be pretty much replaced by "i like the color purple" and the effect on the thread would be the same.
     
  12. Yunalesca

    Yunalesca User

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    look, it's like this.

    mods aren't getting payed. they are however being told to be active/strict on forums to make it look like the real deal aka gms are very active.

    as you see mods are more active around than gms. which is ironic considering gms are the ones getting paid.

    i can get a ban for this post right now in 1 hour, but to answer my freaking ticket of alrdy 1 week away it takes forever.
     
  13. Sweetnight

    Sweetnight User

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    sorry, but i m not agree with all this, what you've write. first of all, once you enter a world (virtual or real), you agree to follow the rules of that world or don't enter it at all. this is how anything works nowadays. our moderators are not blindly applying rules, they just are applying them. no matter if you like it or not.
    regarding the "real life" electric power supply interruption, i don't get your point to be fair. if forum team can't help you with any kind of information, you're interested, you're continuing your attempts to contact the right team till you actually manage to do so. if you want to go to a mountain, you're not going to search for it in the sea, no matter that a same tourist agency are giving you a chance to do so.
    about my replay being off topic, it makes no sense, since you're claiming you're right and our moderators are not doing their job correctly, and my post is the other point of view - may be you're not using the right tools to reach the right people to solve your problem. this is why the support team exists and they are not staying on forum, exactly because they for sure don't have time for this in order to try to help you (at least this is how i am seeing things, can't speak from their names).
     
  14. Evilmuky

    Evilmuky User

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    you are entitled not to agree, facts are not a matter of opinnion though.

    first of all when you enter a world you agree to follow its rules, however when rules are open to interpretation that is a much longer discussion. again, this is a comment to suit your needs. as far as i've had this problem all i have gotten is moderators spewing regulations like automated programs. there is no difference between blindly applying rules and just applying them in this case. again another diferentiation you try to make to suit your needs.
    i never said this is my only venue to try and solve the problem innova has unfairly caused me, is just one of them. you are the one assuming this is the only one i'm pursuing. so far all of them have only yielded either automated replies or rules reminders, all of them useless in helping someone with a problem.

    if by doing your job correctly (meaning moderators) you mean reminding people there are rules, giving warnings and deleting/locking threads when they talk about their private information, which since its theirs they should be able to freely do so, then i guess you can claim you are doing your job correctly. once again i suggest you look up what moderate means, because your definition is clearly your own and before you go saying my definition is just different that yours, really look it up.

    the fact that my "real life" example point eludes you is just sad in very many ways and says a lot about the kind of mentality moderators have. i could go into detail about what it relates to, like i did on another thread that got locked and/or deleted, but if i get another warning the totalitarian regime has told me i will get a penalty this time. i guess just another tactic to silence concerned users.

    as for yunalesca, i have a ticket going towards 20 days now about a matter that has completly destroyed my gameplay and prevented me from enjoying one of the few not pay to win events. i'm still waiting.
     
  15. Sweetnight

    Sweetnight User

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    i have no needs to be suited since i m a simple forum member/game user as you are.
    i did. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moderate i see nothing that our moderators are doing wrong.
    again, i am not a moderator in this forum.
    go into details by following the forum rules and i seriously doubt you will get a warning. moderators are not banning people to silence them, otherwise our lovely anothervictoryofhb would not be back every time he feels like to. and he did much worst, including attacking people and calling them really bad names.
    my pov again those kinds of threads like this one for example are being closed and deleted for the simple reason - there is nothing more to discuss, argue or w/e we are doing right now. not because someone wants to silence you. it again makes no sense, since one ban means nothing, you can always make yourself a new account and continue writing. so do you really think this is a totalitarian regime or just your question has been answered and there was nothing more to discuss about it??? or may be the discussion went to a level, when the moderator has to calm down the spirits? this is a thing, that moderator should and must do after all. the fact that you are seeing it as a totalitarian regime and censure is really your own opinion.
     
  16. Evilmuky

    Evilmuky User

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    the questions i made on the other threads were not answered at all, those threads just received regulation quotes and the answers were not helpfull at all in relation to the problem that i still have at this time. while i was doing what you sugested, following all avenues to try and solve my problem.

    if i didn't think these forums were run like a totalitarian regime why would i say so?. how do you talk about something in the forums when forums rules don't allow users to talk about problems they have regarding certain issues because the threads will be deleted and they will get a warning and if continued a penalty?. how can you claim there is nothing else to discuss when the threads are unilaterally closed, how exactly would you know there is nothing else to discuss?. the discussion on any of my threads was far from anywhere needing interference from anyone to calm down the spirits. i was and i am looking for answers, not only to see if any moderators can help, but also to see if any other players have had the same problem i'm having, to see how long they had to wait, if there was anything to be done, or any sort of information aside from the total stonewalling i get anywhere i talk to anyone related to innova.

    you can claim this is your opinnion or my opinnion or whoever opinnion you wish to mention. my opinnion is backed up by the facts that i cannot talk about a matter that concerns my gameplay in the forum for the game in question because of the restrictions that have been imposed. how do you call unilateral locking/removing of threads when people talk about matters that concern them in relation to the nonexistant level of service this game provides?

    the fact that you think one ban means nothing shows the complete misconception of your interpretation of facts. i nor anyone else should be banned for bringing up something related to this game on the forums made for this game, as long as you keep a resonable posture. i'm not saying people who troll and just post garbage and insult people shouldn't be banned, don't missunderstand. i have been posting legitimate concerns to find out if there is anything i can do about my current problem and i've had and have to argue and talk to moderators and watch what i say carefully so maybe this time the thread doesn't get deleted or locked. i nor anyone else shouldnt' have to walk on egg shells just because questions are asked.

    thank you.
     
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  17. Sweetnight

    Sweetnight User

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    i have nothing more to comment on the matter since you won't be satisfied anyway. moderators cannot help you with your ingame problems and this was repeated thousands times. most of them are players as you are. i saw most of your threads and people answered you normally, the fact that you're pissed that your ticket is not progressing is the reason of your rage, but forum staff can't resolve your problem. look at the forum leaders if you don't trust me and see the moderators team names. they are players... how exactly you think they can help you more than they did by redirecting you to the right people, who can actually help you? you can of course continue with your arguments but i don't have anything more to say since it is like talking to a wall anyway. have a nice evening.
     
  18. Evilmuky

    Evilmuky User

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    i have no need to be satisfied with your answers or those of any moderator or forum leaders since this is not why i posted any of the times i did, some of my questions if not most or all where not even directed at them or you, but where attempts to get information from other players. i am neither pissed nor raging but merely trying to see if this has happened to anyone else, something made impossible by yes moderators since the matter is question is forbidden, something i'm sure happens whereever people have freedom to ask questions and express themselves according to you deluded point of view. i guess this is why they say ignorance is bliss.

    have the best of evenings in your totalitarian world.

    now for anyone else who has been reading this post, shouldn't players be allowed to talk about all ingame related matters on the forums without being censored and/or harassed?
     
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  19. iBane

    iBane User

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    just send moar euros and universe will keep going
     
  20. DeepBlue

    DeepBlue Head Moderator (EU) Head moderator

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    dear evilmuky,

    you had been answered in your previous threads both by several moderators and innova staff members.

    you were redirected to support as your issue can not be dealt with via the forums and it was explained to you several times that there are delays in support tickets being answered so you should just be patient and a member of the support team will respond to your ticket as and when they can.

    making this thread now is nothing more then another blatant attempt to get attention from the people who can not help you any further then they have already done, you have been given the appropriate channels for contact and you have been warned that there are delays and making another post on the forum just to stir up trouble, which will by no means affect how quickly your ticket is dealt with, is just an attempt to troll and attack the staff members who have done everything they personally can to aid you.

    if you do not like the fact that your ticket is in a queue and can not be dealt with faster i am sorry but there really is nothing that can be done about that, other tickets may have a higher priority then yours and will need to be dealt with first.

    as for those of you in this thread talking about word censorship - we will state this once more for you all again - chat filters are in place for a reason, it is to filter out inappropriate language that is not deemed acceptable, especially for younger members of the community.

    anyone who wishes to avoid such filters by replacing letters with symbols or by other means or who decide to try and self filter inappropriate words instead of letting the filter do it, will be infracted for it. you are purposefully avoiding an automatic censor in place to protect other users and therefore are violating forum rules.

    let the filter do its job and you will not get punished for it, if you want to try and break that system with your avoiding methods then be prepared for the consequences.

    thread closed as evilmuky had recieved the appropriate instructions in previous threads and yes you are not alone, other people also get directed to the appropriate channels with support and yes other people are waiting too.

    regards.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2014
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