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Bd/sws suggestion

Discussion in 'Class Discussion' started by wewdome, Sep 26, 2015.

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  1. wewdome

    wewdome User

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    Hi guys
    I have been following the forum for some time now, since I intend to invest a lot of time in the game, as the servers go live. A few days I had a discussion with a friend about game strategy, cp, etc.
    At one point we talked about support classes and wondered about sws/bd.

    The point is that those classes, while viable in 40-70lvl in gracia final, were quite useless as dds afterwards. They have a lot of limitations in mass pvp, cant really tank much, arent really DDs, the only thing they are useful for is their buffs. So u get this class that cant really do much, other than its buffs, cant heal, has very underpowered debuffs and is generally dead weght to drag in mass pvp.

    On the other hand, this will be a hardcore server where gear will be fairly hard to obtain, so we were wondering about the following idea:
    What if the dances/songs were distributed amongst other classes and bd/sws are deleted altogether? Or all the dances are transfered to bounty hunters and all the songs - to artisans. This way ppl would absolutely need to play dwarves, take them in combat and use them effectively, while meanwhile farming and crafting mats+items.

    Now, I know this will probably not happen here since the game is being developed in korea and eu/ru players have very little influence, but I was wandering about your opinion on the subject.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015
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  2. Norz!

    Norz! User

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    Do you realize how "not classic" this is ? People want to play something that's close from C1>C5.

    What's next, remove buffers altogether and make it x100 so we can just focus on pvp ? D:

    Only reasonable thing I could see is to merge SWS/BD into one class, but even that isn't that reasonable, and still never happening either.
     
  3. wewdome

    wewdome User

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    Of course hybrid classes are not classic, but so is a lot of the content of the servers right now. I cant think of any good reason for someone to actively want to play sws/bd. It is fun in 40-60 but later they really suffer from not having any proper defence and attack skills. Sure, anyone can dualbox a bd/sws but this way the game becomes a lot less enjoyable.

    PS. For example, I myself would play an active bd/sws if it had some propper debuff or support skills.
     
  4. Lemmers

    Lemmers User

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    I don't even know what to say to this, lol. I find the BD/SWS playstyle, as it exists, to be the most enjoyable role in the game, and I'm planning on maining BD until the end of time.
     
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  5. Sevi123

    Sevi123 User

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    It's gonna be really hard to find people playing sws/bd in future, because these classes are simply too boring. Ncsoft needs to find a solution to this problem. There are few people which like to play these classes, but server will need at least 50 bd and 50 sws.
     
  6. SandyStorm

    SandyStorm User

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    I know plenty of people that always play BD or SWS. They love that role. Also they have decent debuffs, even on classic, decent tanks (with gear). I respect your opinion, but if such major part of L2 would be changed, it would stop being L2 in my eyes.
     
  7. Norz!

    Norz! User

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    Some of the Classic stuff isn't "original L2", but it does somewhat respects the "classic" spirit. Hybrid classes would be nothing like that.
     
  8. turnON

    turnON User

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    Hello ,

    BD and SWS class is and always will be nice to play , you will see alot of sws abd bd's each group need these 2 chars ,

    these two classes will be with healers most played ( but all depens between chair and keyboard )

    I would say c1 topic is different than sws bd topic in gracia , here those skills wich they have slow bleed attack and other stuff , are powerfull you have to cooperate dances and songs mixed or u loose mp whcihi you need.
    and sws and bd are not dd's they are debufers and supoprt and doing agro taking enemies on them so yes its semi tank semi dd , its unique character and it's up to you if you make more dd or more support.

    seems you have no experience what c1 is , I sugest you to check some movies from gran kain how these chars are played and what they wear ( armor weapon ) ,

    all what ic in c6 + is no sense in l2 and don't count experience from c6+ l2 classic ic c1 - c5 = and than we will decide as community with koreans if we will ahve new epilogues etc etc.

    Wish you good luck
     
  9. wewdome

    wewdome User

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    The fact is this game was full of mistakes from the beginning. I think quality game time is more importand than classic spirit.

    Full cp of nolifer forum-associated ******* with boxed sws and bd comes and wipes your almost full party of IRL friends, which doesnt have sws, because nobody would want to actively play such bull**** class.
    So I ask, where is the fun in that?

    Bd/sws got some new debuffs in later chronicles, in c1-c2 they have nothing, except hex, freezing strike, bleed, poison(bd), entangle(sws)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2015
  10. Norz!

    Norz! User

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    If you can already tell you're going to be butthurt when nolifers roll over you, I suggest you don't even start on L2C. Because it WILL happen. Russian trashy RMTers, kids with too much time on their hands, you name it. Some people are going to take L2C as seriously as a some kind of job, and act/play accordingly.

    Now I don't know how BD/SWS are like on L2C, but keep in mind one of the major differences between L2C and Original Chronicles is that the classes are re-balanced for L2C. It's actually a good question, are SWS/BD any different in L2C ?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2015
  11. MrRollback

    MrRollback User

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    Good luck bringing down a fully geared up SW. Make sure you coffee as it's going to take some time
     
  12. Orcoso

    Orcoso User

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    Well God solved bd/sws "problem"... They should it for classic as well!
     
  13. Bosephine

    Bosephine User

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    Regarding SWS, if your party has a sws and the other does not, all else being equal, you will win the fight. So why play sws? To be on the winning team, and to have a class that isn't too intense to play. Great for stoners and people who like to socialize.
     
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  14. kuragari

    kuragari User

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    OP, why are you evaluating the amount of damage SwS and BD do? DPS has nothing to do with these classes. They are support classes. They buff, aggro, root, debuff and DoT. BD is an anti-archer powerhouse with hex, powerbreak, aggro, root, sting, freeze, poison and tons of HP.

    SwS is a great low pressure class for someone who doesn't do well with mass PvP. If a DD makes a mistake in PvP their party will lose because of them. Some people's talent levels require them to play SwS and BD because they are flexible classes and the mistakes are low impact. Then there are also high skilled players who like playing SwS / BD and figure out a way they can squeeze every small strategic difference to be the top BD on the server and make more of a difference in PvP for their party. I qualify as one of those types of players. I've played a BD and I can make a serious difference with it by using all of the skills. Then there are less skilled people who will just aggro one DD with their BD and call it good and that's fine too.

    I'll also add that most people don't need to kill in PvP to enjoy L2. I've played almost every single class in this game on a mass PvP level and each role is fun if the player isn't obsessed with murdering. The fun you get out of L2 should be playing your class to the maximum and always improving your skill. Killing/DPS has very little to do with that. If 6/9 members of every party aren't kill classes then that's 66% of the server who aren't killers in PvP. It's not 66% of the server who don't understand L2 it's the people who think DPS classes are all that exist in RPG games.
     
  15. Sonnova

    Sonnova User

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    Well, I loved my Spectral Dancer.

    Run in, Medusa, UD, switch to bow and have fun.
    Gank L/X - Room with Dance of Shadow...
    Hell... was a fun time!
     
  16. wewdome

    wewdome User

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    To you and all other guys, that replied so far, thanks for the participation. Kuragari made a very important point here about killing. My personal experience with l2 is limited. I have played c4 official for a very short time, and spent a few winters in hybrid prelude-c3 servers, h5 and interlude servers. I play with friends and once we even managed to get full cp from server start. With that said I am not too competitive in gaming i.e. i dont play 8 hours a day, neither do i aim for uber stats and pvp count. I feel most comfortable playing some less stressful class such as tank/healer/archer/nuker, since melee dds are generally more demanding and harder to play. In other words i am very far from pwnZ000r wannabe.

    With that said, I want to remind you that this is not c4, or c5+ server. Singers and dancers dont even have arrest, nor silence, debuff, hold... All they have are some very basic buffs, and the only real useful debuff is bd hex, hence my conviction for those classes of not being worth active play.

    I am not insisting that bd/sws are turned into secondary dd class, there were just few suggestions about making them more viable. I certainly woudnt mind if they get debuffs from much later patches. I would also accept splitting songs/dances between other classes or merging them in one class.

    Pls, bare in mind that this is still just theory crafting, I am aware such suggestions would never make it in these live servers
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2015
  17. Yunalesca

    Yunalesca User

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    TBH, i always had this idea that warcryer and prophet are the classes that shouldnt exist. Overlord could easily take that place as the universal buffer and sws/bd act as the melee dance/song buffers while healers would have basic buffs to hunt that overlord would have more advanced ( this way no more stupid buffs implemented in the game just to have a buffer made BOX on purpose for 1 high level buff - Counter Critical im looking at you). Ofcourse this is just a thought and is not welcomed by anybody that wants the old class model.

    SWS and BD are special in a way, that they are essentially a buffer tank, their agro is largely improved compared to the agro from the old c1~ct1. And BD can be used as an assister for to burst on with hex, while being able to pull out a bow to help on DPS. Also this is too early of a stage to even comment on a buffer class to be useless later on. The future updates are uncertain, but no matter what a better buffed party will farm easier, which in turn means, gear easier, level easier and kill enemy easier.
     
  18. kuragari

    kuragari User

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    I wasn't theorycrafting, I play RU Classic. SwS / BD have all of the debuffs, aggro, arrest, entangle and hold in Classic. Aggro alone is extremely useful, it takes one enemy DD out of DPSing the primary assist.
     
  19. Banish3d

    Banish3d User

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    BD and SWS have more debuff on Classic than C1.

    Check here (Korean Classic Wiki) :

    - Bladedancer skill (debuff : Aggression/Arrest/Freezing Strike/Power Break/Hex) + some useful poison/bleed (strong in classic, high land rate/critical poison/stack)

    - Swordsinger skill (debuff : Aggression/Arrest/Entangle/Sword Symphony (silence))

    Ok, you get Arrest/Sword Symphony at lv 55 but at least they have it.

    Edit : too late
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2015
  20. wewdome

    wewdome User

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    They got renewal and zerk... Etc?

    Edit: i took a look at the links. It is nice to have some later skills, although many epic ones are still missing. At least it is better than I expected, thanks for the info. Personally though still think they are still completely boxable classes, especially sws.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2015
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