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About the 4x-8x adena drop rate.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ciurka, Nov 21, 2015.

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  1. ciurka

    ciurka User

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    Since I do not want to derail the FAQ topic I'll create a new thread to discuss this change

    It is one of the stupidiest changes and sadly, I do not think they can do much to prevent this, because its in the npcdata, meaning that it is not just a global multiplier, but more like a fixed value for every mob.
    For example, you can find the amount of adena back in 1.0 (TRUE CLASSIC) mobs dropped in the archive of ru wikipedia, for example:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20150513031611/http://l2central.info/classic/Главарь_Воинов_Орков_Кабу

    So, before the adena rate was boosted, back in early 2015 on ru classic Orc kaboo warrior leader (12lvl!) would drop 10-23 adena. Now, after all the adena buffs it will drop 48-110. That is an increase of almost 5x! All the mobs are same, varying from 4x to 8x adena increase.

    https://l2central.info/classic/Главарь_Воинов_Орков_Кабу

    To make matters even worse, since Age of Splendor all weapons (except bows) consume only one soulshot/spiritshot! (instead of 3). This means that you wil be able to go ahead and hunt mobs with soulshots/spiritshots enabled and still, make adena.
    So, in reality, this adena increase ruins the whole classic experience, hunting is going to be at least 2 times easier because you will be able to hunt with soulshots and get the good equipment very fast.
    A good comparison: back in 1.0, real classic, by the time you reached LVL 20 you would have a wooden set, the 10lvl quest weapon and maybe 10-20k of adena, depending on your luck. Nowadays you will be able to get wooden set at around 12lvl and by the 20 LVL you will have around 70k adena, so at 21lvl you will be able to buy a either bronze set (top NG armor) or upgrade your weapon to mid NG (130k ish). By the level 25 you will get a free set of D grade armor and you will have around 500k in your inventory - an easy upgrade to D grade weapon. By the 30lvl you should already have adena for top D grade weapon and so on.

    Compare this to old 1.0 classic where it went more like - 24lvl bronze set, 30+++lvl first low d weapon or mithril set (mid d armor).

    There are even more things that increased adena rate like this breaks... For example.
    To get a TOP NG weapon you have to hunt 23ish lvl mobs, example, top ng dagger is dropped by 23lvl bugbears near dion, top ng bow is dropped by 24lvl mobs and so on. Well, the problem is... that by the level 24 you will already (or almost) have adena to buy the same top NG weapon so what this means that the 'excitement' level of getting a drop from mob and actually using it will be very low or nonexistant because it is just going to be another item that you will sell instantly since you either have the same level weapon or even better already.
    If it was 1.0 classic at level 23-24 there was no way you would have a top NG weapon, it was pretty much guaranteed that you would still be hunting mobs with the 10lvl quest item (unless you got a weapon drop earlier) so an upgrade from 10lvl quest weapon to top NG would be a huge one insteaof just going 'meh'.

    And it is just a few things that high adena drop rate ruins/imabalances in the classic. I could go and on and on with the examples...

    To sum it up: the game is now waaaaay easier and does not reflect the 'classic hardcore' mentality anymore.

    /Rant over
     
  2. Approbus

    Approbus User

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    I think better idea was to make crafting shots cheaper rather than heavily boosting adena rates. Especially by this much.
     
  3. FireWithin

    FireWithin User

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    Approbus i think you confuse NC Soft with a company who actually care about the game and the future of the economy of the servers to avoid insane inflation over time.

    Unfortunately i can already see that this "classic" thing was never really about bringing back the classic L2, but more about pretending to be different but arent really ... just look at the state of the Korean version, you might as well be playing the live servers by now, they are making all the same .. what i would call mistakes ... again and repeating the same idiotic changes that they did to live servers.

    And lets be honest the few changes that 4Game can force through, will probably never gonne be enough to over time stop the sink down a similar level as Korean version, they can only delay it ... and i hope for as long as possible.
     
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  4. Lemmers

    Lemmers User

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    For what it's worth, that feature might not be active for some months after EU launch. Hopefully.

    I've been arguing the same concerns for many months now, I feel your pain breh. We're unfortunately just gonna have to take what we can get.
     
  5. Parody123

    Parody123 User

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    Ciurka, did u play true classic?
    Do u know how many times less adena was droped in 1.0 comared to normal old C1?
    Do u know why koreans decided to change the adena drop?
     
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  6. vvhitevvizard

    vvhitevvizard User

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    In my humble opinion and according to my own experience of L2 Prelude/L2C KOR/RU,
    1.0 adena drop was just a tad lower than original Prelude/C1 one, with the next patches they added 10 or so to the minimal adena drop. And it was nothing drastic, retaining a feeling of original Lineage 2 and quite playable.
    Nov 21, 2015
    I totally agree with u. Tendency of turning Lineage 2 classic into Lineage 2 casual is depressing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2015
  7. ciurka

    ciurka User

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    Yes, yes I did, in fact, I played the true korean classic way before the RU classic started.
    There is no solid number, but the approximate amount was that the 1.0 classic had 1/6th of C4 adena drop rate. With the current 4x-8x increase the 1.5 classic has about the same adena drop rate as C4.

    Thing is, pretty much all of the NCSoft changes do make sense, because these changes were made for already existing, live & mature server. They were designed from ground up for that.
    Most of the changes are aimed towards helping the new players, who most likely will have to hunt solo (because everyone else is 50++lvl). Without these changes (free d grade armor, free tps, increased adena, increased xp in solo zones, etc) it would be rather impossible to catch up with already existing player base.
    Hell, it would be a huge pain to even hunt mobs or PvE in general, since the true 1.0 classic was all about parties, but since the korean server is 1.5 years old there arent that many new players that a fresh player could group up and PvE in party from 10-40 levels.

    So, to sum it up, without these changes noone would want to start or join an already existing 'classic' server.

    On top of that, you might think, but hey! These changes do have an effect for 50+lvl players too! Well, no, not really. Free d grade armor - useless, free tps until 40lvl - useless, adena increase - almost useless. Why? Here is the explanation.

    The item market (above C grade luxury shop) is driven solely by players and players dictate the prices. So the prices go up and down depending on how easy it is to get/make adena, so this actually balances out pretty nicely within the market and the adena drop rate increase does not really have any real effect to players that already have C grade luxury items or above since the next upgrade/item has to be crafted/bought from players (or dropped from NPC ofc) and they are the ones giving the price.
    The only 'benefit' for the players above 50 level that this gives - easier to afford the soulshots, but in reality, this was not a problem anyway.

    Now, if you look at the players that have equipment that is lower level than luxury c grade - it essentially means that you can get this equipment 4-8x times faster/easier than before because the prices are LOCKED (Top D will always be 1.4-1.51kk, no matter the adena rate) by the NPC's and for an existing server, where majority of player base are already above 50 level - that is a great thing, because it gives a chance for a new player to catch up at least to some degree.

    So, as you see, these changes do make sense and are actually good for already LIVE AND MATURED server. However, starting with these changes from Day 1 is a disaster.
    Thing is, you can not blame NCSoft for this, because they never designed these changes to be for Day 1 of server, the Lineage 1.0 classic was designed for Day 1 server and it was pretty much perfect...
    Sadly, we will not be starting with the 1.0. None of these changes would be bad if the 1.5 AoS update would be implemeneted 3+ months after the start.

    PS. If we are looking whom to blame - You could say its the Innova, since they are the ones who made the decision to start with the 1.5 AoS version instead of the 1.0.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2015
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  8. Lemmers

    Lemmers User

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    Are you 100% sure it was solely Innova's decision to begin with Age of Splendor?
     
  9. Parody123

    Parody123 User

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    Free d grade armor, free tps until 40lvl - as far as I know, those things that should help new players to catch up should not be at the start of EU server.

    As far as aden drop goes, I wouldnt mind to start at 1.0 adena drop for first month or two, then go to 1.3 adena drop. But I am afraid most ppl would not survive 1.0 adena drop.
     
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  10. ciurka

    ciurka User

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    I can not be 100% sure, however, I base my statement on this:
    • Innova launched true 1.0 on RU, so technically they should have a license for this
    • I doubt the NCSoft forced Innova to go with the 1.5 in order to keep the same versions of both on RU/Korean/EU classics since this was not the case back when RU 1.0 launched and the Korean classic was already at 1.3 (Age of War)
    • It is MUCH easier to maintain same version servers (EU + RU) from the server maintenance perspective than to have two different ones which require different maintenance and care.

    Yes, it is confirmed that free teleports will not be implement, so hooray for this!
    As of D grade armor - I have not seen a 100% statement from Admin/Mod/GM that this will be disabled

    Unfortunately, the 4-8x adena drop rate is confirmed (by Amarantha) and will not be changed


    As I've mentioned in above quote reply.
    It is confirmed that the adena amount will be 4x-8x and it is a huge game breaker.

    PS. The post where Amarantha confirmed about the adena can be seen here:
    https://4gameforum.com/threads/25787/

     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2015
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  11. vvhitevvizard

    vvhitevvizard User

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    I couldnt have said it any better. Two thumbs up, mate! U r the one who truely understands the spirit of the original game
     
  12. Lemmers

    Lemmers User

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    The first point isn't accurate, EU and RU licenses are completely different licenses which were negotiated for separately. And unless we have a disgruntled ex-employee from Innova or NCsoft come forth with information we will never know most of the details of these.

    Second and third points, as far as I know we're not sure which company is in charge of translating the clients. It's easy to assume Innova is, but I can see why NCsoft would have an interest in the translations of their IP. But yeah, it's definitely easy for Innova to maintain two different localizations of the game if they're the same update. It's easy to see that it was Innova's call for which update to start with if they have that sort of pull with NCsoft, I'm just kinda playing devil's advocate hehe.
     
  13. vvhitevvizard

    vvhitevvizard User

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    I guess so. Its costly to run and support different game versions at the same time.
     
  14. ciurka

    ciurka User

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    You're right about the first point, we have no way of knowing this exactly, it is just how I personally feel towards it.

    Regarding the translation - there are only few things here and there that have to be translated (to be exact - only content exclusive to classic, such as 25lvl D grade armor quest and skills that do not match GF/H5/GOD). Rest of the things have been translated long time ago and can be re-used from the EU non-classic L2 versions (GF/H5/GOD) so technically, the translation of L2 Classic should be rather simple task.
     
  15. vvhitevvizard

    vvhitevvizard User

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    Casual EU players always have a choice of playing that Lineage 2 Odyssey thingie.
     
  16. Coretex

    Coretex User

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    I had no idea that classic is gonna go through casualization like this. What the hell... :(

    The only appeal classic has to me is its hardcore nature similar to the original game.
     
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  17. Lemmers

    Lemmers User

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    That's true, although then the method would be a lot more complex than just translating what NCsoft has produced for classic. I think NCsoft would be a lot more protective over the IP than to allow an enormous restructuring of the game for Innova to transform the GoD version into the Classic version (by restructuring I mean picking through pre GoD files for old town layouts, various map layouts, and various doodads placed throughout the map). I really couldn't guess the strategy whichever company it is uses, and I would lean a little more towards Innova being responsible for choosing Age of Splendor for EU launch. Just pointing out some things to argue that assumption to show anyone else who reads here that isn't educated in the details that they shouldn't just jump on the blaming Innova wagon straight away.
     
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  18. wewdome

    wewdome User

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    Well innova stated that there will be a survey short before server start about what we want in the client. Therefore 70% of this discussion right here is pointless. The other 30% are about things in kr, which are not necessarily coming here at all or in their present form. Also, nobody knows the direction kr will take from now.

    The way i see it, we have at least a year of gameplay ahead of us. During this time anything can happen. A friggin comet might hit the planet. SO STOP CRYING!
     
  19. Banish3d

    Banish3d User

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    I just found a C1 database and if you take a look on Adena amount you can see they dropped far more than in Classic :

    C1 : Kaboo Orc Fighter Leader (92 - 127 adena).

    Classic 1.0 : Kaboo Orc Fighter Leader (10 - 23 adena).

    Classic 1.5 : Kaboo Orc Fighter Leader (48 - 110 adena).

    C4 > High Five : Kaboo Orc Fighter Leader (114 - 157 adena).

    Now it will be interessing to check on different mobs if they drop less than before.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2015
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  20. Norz!

    Norz! User

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    I find the thread's title to be both misleading and dishonest. OP makes it sound like this is some kind of high rate, whereas the adenas rate used to be pre-GoD rate... divided by 6. And only then, in 1.5, multiplied by 4, before another 30% was removed. In the end, that's not even as much as an original, pre-GoD x1 rate.

    ^ And this kind of post is the reason why the misleading OP is annoying me. People fall for it, and complain. Not only is the adenas rate perfectly reasonable, but what the OP doesn't talk about is that the XP curve is even MUCH more tougher than back in the day. By a LOT, really.

    Don't be misled people, L2C is still a hell of a crazy grind. Don't take my word for it, open a Twitch stream, see for yourself.

    EDIT- See post above mine.
     
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