1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Why no transparency is bad

Discussion in 'Archive' started by aalat, Dec 8, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. aalat

    aalat User

    Joined:
    23.10.12
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    21
    Dear Innova team and Moderators,

    As you can see the level of frustration went so high that you are locking 3 threads a day just to shut people up. The behavior of the community is nothing else but a reaction to your behavior.

    The language what our dear Moderators are using is almost offensive about this topic. They sound like "Why are you stupid? Didn't we say we wont open the server on the 8th or on the 15th? Why is it so hard to understand?" You also tell us we should go and read the news section and posts made by other moderators.
    The thing is, there are no news. There are only shaded words spit out about opening around x-mas.
    That's not news.
    What our community really wants is that the CM would come forward and say, "Hey, we are sorry we screwed it up. Our next target date is this and that."
    And I really doubt that people want this just because they want to blame someone. We want this to actually have news. Bad news are also news.
    If you would spend 5 minutes like every 3rd day and give us an update about whats happening then the community would be much calmer and would show more understanding. That's because we would be part of the process.
    Ever heard of agile software development? I think you should you pick up a few practices from here and there about the relationship with customers. Keeping people away from whats happening is the worst thing you can do to your players in today's world.
     
    WizarDEAD, Rytfield, [A]KaEL and 8 others like this.
  2. IxeHole

    IxeHole User

    Joined:
    26.11.15
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    3
    QQ
     
    noisy43 likes this.
  3. aalat

    aalat User

    Joined:
    23.10.12
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    21
    Eh, the previous post got deleted... Anyway, the guy said that this is a waste of time, and my thread will get deleted too.
    I dont think i wrote anything that needs moderation.

    I gave feedback, and i did it in a way so like-minded could join in and share their thoughts.
    I dont see how is this wrong.
     
  4. DeepBlue

    DeepBlue Head Moderator (EU) Head moderator

    Joined:
    30.11.11
    Messages:
    13,751
    Likes Received:
    435
    Lets clear some things up shall we? :)

    Locking 3 threads a day to be fair is nothing considering the hype for this particular project and is completely normal for large projects/communities.

    As for players reactions being based on our behaviour, lets re-quote something I wrote recently:

    We have provided as much information as we can and will continue to do so when it is appropriate and we are able to do so as we did on Thursday evening:

    We have found in the past that when there is no new information to be given if we come and post such things every 3rd day as you suggest we get just as much if not more "grief" for doing so, therefore, no matter what we do or do not do there will always be some people willing to commence with repetitive drama - this is Lineage 2 after all...right guys? ^^

    The language used by the moderators is far from offensive. The messages used when closing duplicate threads are neutral and straight to the point with a clear reason given as to why it has been closed and, if appropriate, directions given to point people to the place where they can watch for upcoming news or how to search for previously asked questions of the same topic.
    Or would you rather we just closed the threads in silence without any justification? :)
     
    noisy43 likes this.
  5. iMadD

    iMadD User

    Joined:
    14.03.13
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    41
    Please refer for your self I highly doubt you represent the community.
    Also a target date is what the word say a target not opening date.
    So you would expect longer than the target.
    There isn't any screw up on my view in fact they doing create job...look all the hype all the drama and tears I bet you are like me checking every 1 hour every single section for a news for this magic date.
    Meanwhile get ready for xmas party and gifts for family etc
     
  6. ThreeNill

    ThreeNill User

    Joined:
    17.11.15
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    56
    For me, as a person, frequent updates with less information or details-that-most-people-wouldn't-understand would be better than large update every month+. Even if it is something like "we are still testing..." . Although if, as you say, you've tried it before and it wouldn't improve the community "mood" then.. back to waiting..
     
  7. iMadD

    iMadD User

    Joined:
    14.03.13
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    41
    I want a hourly update....
    10:00 on brake eating egg mayo sandwiches
    10:55 back at work smashing keys
    11:45 completed 1st class quest on human night on testing only 12 classes left
    12:15 going to wc
    Et etc etc
    Might some be happy like this :p 2e live in the social media era anyway where people have to post on Facebook and Twitter everything
     
    noisy43 likes this.
  8. aalat

    aalat User

    Joined:
    23.10.12
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    21
    DeepBlue, thanks for taking the effort and reply.

    What is strange to me that the hype is real as you mentioned too, but do you really think that the community manager should "communicate" with the players once or twice in a month? Especially when we are close to the release. It really feels not enough for me and i doubt i'm alone.
    Moderators are moderating (not in every case obviously). I personally dont want moderation, i would like "care". And this care should not only come from the moderators.

    I was talking about the messages in some of the topics, not the closing thread phrase. nvm.
     
  9. Rainlok

    Rainlok User

    Joined:
    29.08.15
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    69
    We got server name "phase I" up, that's news, vote and wait for "phase II" :) enjoy the hype don't kill my vibe. Be thankful the project is actually happening. Thank you.
    Dec 8, 2015
     
  10. Kvothe

    Kvothe User

    Joined:
    13.10.14
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    31
    ImadD,

    what you wrote is absurd and even if you might like lack of communication from side of Innova, it's not how most of the community feels.

    DeepBlue,

    there is no excuse for lack of communication. It's worst behaviour you can ever show to your customers as a company and I don't really think that it feels good for you to read all the ( for you maybe nonsense ) blame everyday. Let me show you how easy it is:

    23.11.

    Hello guys, preorders, are you ready? We will give you more info about possible release date on the end of this week. Stay tuned!

    27.11.

    we were testing the server during this week and it looks promising. We aim to open the server in the middle of December, but the date will be specified based on the testing.

    30.11.

    Please, help us to choose the name of the server. Winter is coming!

    2.12.

    Unfortunately, there is problem which might delay start of the server ( specify the problem ). We are doing our best to solve the problem and once we have any news, we will Let you know

    4.12.

    We identified the problem and this will cause delay of approx. 1 week. We are sorry for complications and thanks for your support.

    10.12.

    Good news guys, problem was solved, we are in final phase of testing and if everything goes well, we will pre-open the server in 8-10 days, We will Let you know on the of next week.

    18.12. - Great news guys, server is ready and we will open it 21.12.

    Yes, you will still read by trolls - GG INNOVA, same files as Russians and you still failed. But most ppl with brain will be thankful for info...

    Cmon just care about your community little bit! It's not so hard...
     
    Rytfield, [A]KaEL and ThreeNill like this.
  11. DeepBlue

    DeepBlue Head Moderator (EU) Head moderator

    Joined:
    30.11.11
    Messages:
    13,751
    Likes Received:
    435
    @Kvothe

    Lets use your format :)

    12.11 - https://4gameforum.com/threads/537420/ - Pre-orders announced.

    13.11 - https://4gameforum.com/threads/537578/ Opened and first phase of Questions answered - Preliminary date of 15.12 given.

    17.11 - https://4gameforum.com/threads/537578/page-2#post-7934056 - Second phase of Questions answered - I think everyone can agree that at this point we already had a preliminary date which at the time of this post was still true, therefore there was no need to mention a release date again.

    3.12 - https://4gameforum.com/threads/537578/page-4#post-7985197 - Third phase of Questions answered - Confirmation that release will not happen on 15.12 and another week of testing will give us a better idea of the status of release - Up until this day all members of the Team were going out of there way with testing etc to try and make the 15.12 date a possibility but it became clear that would not be possible and therefore you were all informed. Pazak also said they will need a week of testing to have a better idea of the status for release, it has not even been a week so far.

    3.12 - https://4gameforum.com/threads/540855/ - Poll opened for server name voting.


    So please Guys, just calm yourselves down, as you can see information has been provided and within reasonable timescales, we are not even going into the length of time between 13.11 and 3.12 because up until that point you had a preliminary release date and everyones goal here was to be able to make that happen.
    It is unfortunate that situations have prevented that, but, that's life, things happen that can't be predicted and no one can do anything about it.

    Staff are working enormous amounts of hours right now to get things done as fast as they can for You, how about you show them a little bit of respect instead of insulting them all, or i don't know...go outside and get some fresh air or something..maybe go Christmas shopping with/for your families.

    Regards.
     
  12. nonas

    nonas User

    Joined:
    13.09.10
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    38
    Staff that is working enormous amount of hours could spend atleast 10 minutes each day to inform community about the progress and reduce the amount of drama happening right now on forums.
     
    Traygard and Naree like this.
  13. Tirith

    Tirith User

    Joined:
    09.03.15
    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    95
    At least 10 min a day for, lets say a week, is at least 70 min a week. Hmm, I don't know about you but I'd rather have them spend those 70 minutes working on a server and try to get it up and running as soon as possible than to inform us that there is nothing to inform yet, until of course there is something to inform (which obviously isn't every day). But hey, that's just me.
     
  14. Kvothe

    Kvothe User

    Joined:
    13.10.14
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    31
    @DeepBlue

    I don't really think I have insulted anyone. I even understand that things might go wrong and project might get delayed even if you work hard. I am not even saying that you aren't trying your best to release the server as it is lot of work for all of you.

    What I am trying to say is, that ppl who are responsible for communication in Innova could handle the situation better and that more frequent ( evne very short ) messages in News and Announcments section will be much better. That's how it works, give to your customers feeling that you are around, you care and everything will be smoother.


    Wake up earlier, prepare your breakfast, write message which takes you 2 minutes and enjoy rest of the day while ppl will be thankful for news instead of hateful.


    Well, just my 2 cents.
     
  15. nonas

    nonas User

    Joined:
    13.09.10
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    38
    I think mods deleting drama and riot posts are spending more than 70 minutes weekly.
    And that's because community is tired of waiting weeks between news.
    If users had sufficient amount of information, mods wouldn't need to delete numerous posts and spend that precious time testing the server instead of modding forums.
     
  16. Tirith

    Tirith User

    Joined:
    09.03.15
    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    95
    Because mods, like me, aren't Innova staff. Speaking for myself, I don't get to test anything and that is why I can spend 70min a week browsing the forum. And when there is something new to announce by Innova Staff, I get to find out about it as fast as anyone else.
     
    Rainlok likes this.
  17. Apophis

    Apophis User

    Joined:
    24.11.11
    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    215
    @Tirith or @DeepBlue, if you happen to have a way to contact Amarantha, please ask her (and Innova's team) to clearly state "official release" and "early access" when talking about the release date, because this is creating most problems. For example we know that a "full release" will not happen on 15, and that the next timeframe is "around Christmas", but some of us think (or better say dream) that the early access is still posible on 15, with the official release around Christmas.
     
    HellBlade Se7eN and [A]KaEL like this.
  18. DeepBlue

    DeepBlue Head Moderator (EU) Head moderator

    Joined:
    30.11.11
    Messages:
    13,751
    Likes Received:
    435
    I will repeat part of Pazak's post again because apparently people are still missing information that is already given:

    That means that there will be testing for a week which will let us know in better detail the status of release, what do you want them to say for 10 minutes everyday when they have already informed you there will be another week of testing before we know anything more certain? "We are still testing for this week like we already told you we would be" rinse and repeat 7 times?
    Sorry but it's not very logical or appropriate to make you all jump like crazy to check a new Announcement post only to find they are telling you every day what you already knew was going to take a week.

    @Apophis - Only the results of the testing I just mentioned will be able to give us a clear answer about the early access and full release so once we have that we will update everyone as soon as we can.

    Regards.

    P.S. @Kvothe - I did not mean you personally were insulting anyone, I was addressing the community as a whole in general ;)
     
  19. Weeeu

    Weeeu User

    Joined:
    28.05.13
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    11
    A nice trick to get some money.
    12.11 Pre-orders announced.
    13.11 Opened and first phase of Questions answered - Preliminary date of 15.12 given.

    Smart, smart. Not only you've baited people into pre-ordering, you also backed yourself up with "preliminary", which doesn't indicate 100% , so players can't do anything with their pre-orders but wait. Oh well, we'll just have to wait and see what this server has to offer. Quality and live population, or craptastic bots and minimal support .
     
  20. ThreeNill

    ThreeNill User

    Joined:
    17.11.15
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    56
    Wow.. I love how the thread evolved from a simple request to have more frequent updates on the status to a hate outlet for people having nothing better to do...
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.